Rwanda Genocide memorial

Nyuma y’inyandiko yasohotse yitwa Nta mudeli wo kwanika amagufa, twashoboye kwumva ikiganiro BBC yagiranye na bamwe mu barokotse jenoside. Umwe yasobanuye intimba aterwa no kuba Leta y’u Rwanda yarahatiye umuryango we gutaburura ababyeyi be aho bari bashyinguwe mu cyubahiro kugira ngo bajye kumanika amagufa yabo mu tubati two mu rwibutso. Undi nawe yasobanuye uburyo leta yanze guha nyina icyubahiro.

Mutege amatwi ibyo abo bacikacumu basobanuriye BBC.

BBC: Reka tujye kuri Jonathan Musonera.
Jonathan, uri umututsi w’umucikacumu. Ariko mu bitekerezo byawe uko numvise uvuga bitandukanye n’abacikacumu bibumbiye mu muryango Ibuka ku kibazo cy’izi nzibutso za jenoside.

Jonathan Musonera: Rwose mu by’ukuri ibyo ni ko bimeze. Abenshi muri Ibuka, ni abatutsi koko, ndetse bacitse ku icumu, ariko iyo urebye imikorere yabo, ni imikorere isa nk’aho irimo itegeko rya leta. Mu by’ukuri, iyo ukurikije uko leta y’u Rwanda iyoboye ubutegetsi bwayo, nta n’ubwo njyewe ibi bintu by’imibare bavuga ngo aba bantu ni benshi muri guverinoma, aba ni bake, ntabwo ubundi ariko binakoze mu Rwanda. Hari agatsiko kayoboye ubutegetsi bw’u Rwanda. Ni nako kemeza ibintu, abandi bakabikurikiza. Abatabikurikije barafungwa cyangwa se bagahunga, cyangwa se bagapfa. Ndafite ingero zitandukanye.
Tuze nko ku kibazo cy’ejobundi ubwo bashatse kutwica. Bashatse kutwica baduhora ko turi hanze…

Q/ Wowe na nde?

Jonathan Musonera: Hari njyewe, hari n’abo dufatanije. Ikibazo si icyo cyanjye njyenyine, ahubwo cyahereye kuri Generali Kayumba Nyamwasa muri South Afrika.

Q/ Ariko dusubiye kuri abo bantu, kuko inzandiko narazibonye – biriya mwahawe na polisi – baravuga ni “threat”. Threat ntabwo bivuga kwica.

Jonathan Musonera: Ariko threat irangiriza mu kwica. Kuko iyo umuntu ashaka kukugirira nabi uburyo bwose ashobora gukoresha buba bubangamiye ubuzima bwawe niba warasomye neza iriya baruwa polisi ya hano yampaye imbwira ko ubuzima bwanjye bubangamiwe, ni ukuvuga kandi bubangamiwe na guverinoma y’u Rwanda, ese niba babangamira abari hanze y’igihugu, ndetse bari i Burayi, abari mu gihugu bashobora kuba bagira icyo bavuga kuri guverinoma wumva babangamirwa gute?

Q/ Ariko, wenda ndaguha umwanya wongere ubisobanure. Banza usubire kuri kiriya kibazo cy’inzibutso za jenoside.

Jonathan Musonera: Tugarutse kuri icyo kibazo cy’inzibutso za jenoside, mu by’ukuri iyo urebye uburyo zikoreshwa na leta y’u Rwanda, zikoreshwa nk’ikintu gifitiye leta inyungu kitanafitiye n’abakorewe iyo jenoside inyungu. Ndaguha ingero zifatika. Hashize imyaka 17 twibuka jenoside yakorewe abatutsi. Buri mwaka niko bajya gutaburura abantu bapfuye bishwe muri jenoside. Imibare batanga buri gihe, iyo ubaze n’imibare bavuga ko abatutsi bakorewe jenoside, ukubye n’imyaka 17 ushobora gusanga bigeze no muri hafi miliyoni imwe n’igice. Wagaruka inyuma ukibaza uti ese, ni iki gituma iyo leta idashobora gufata igihe ngo abantu bose bazize jenoside babashyingurire rimwe, noneho izo nzibutso tujye twibuka ariko atari uko buri mwaka bahora bajya gushakisha abantu ngo aho bahambwe. Icya kabiri…

Q/ Ariko nta n’ubwo ari uguhamba! Hari abatawe mu misarane, hari abatawe mu myobo, ni ukujya kubakura hariya bakabaha kubashyingura mu cyubahiro nk’abantu. Kuko, interahamwe zibatemagura zigira gute babataga aho babonye. Ntabwo kwari uguhamba.

Jonathan Musonera: Ni byo koko. Ariko, ni iki gituma badashyiraho umushinga wo kugira ngo bige icyo kintu gikorwe mu gihe kimwe atari uko bahora buri mwaka bajya gushaka nyine aho abo bantu bashyizwe.

Q/ Ariko, niba bagihari?

Jonathan Musonera: Niba bagihari, niyo mpamvu nanjye navuze nti bashyizeho umushinga wo kwiga icyo kintu bagashakisha ahantu abo bantu bajugunywe mu misarane cyangwa mu myobo cyangwa ahandi hantu hatandukanye, bagashyingurirwa igihe kimwe. Noneho kwibuka buri mwaka bikaba kwibuka ariko bitajya guhora bajya gushakisha aho abantu batawe.
Icya kabiri nshaka kuvuga kijyanye n’izi nzibutso: iyo ugeze mu gihugu cy’u Rwanda ukareba hirya no hino mu gihugu ahantu amagufa y’ababyeyi bacu n’abavandimwe amanitse mu ma etajeri aho bagenda berekana mu nzibutso! Umuco w’u Rwanda, icya mbere cyo iyo umuntu apfuye, wemera ko umuntu ashyingurwa. Ijambo ry’Imana ryemera ko umuntu iyo apfuye ashyingurwa. Ni iki gituma leta y’u Rwanda idashobora gushyingura abantu bamanitse mu bubati aho bagiye babashyira? Nk’ibicuruzwa?

Q/ Sinzi impamvu babikora ariko reka nkubaze. Ntekereza ko kubikora kuriya, ntabwo ishobora kuba ari inzira imwe ituma abantu bibuka ibibi byabaye muri kiriya gihugu kugira ngo bitazongera kuba!

Jonathan Musonera: Ntabwo jenoside yabaye mu Rwanda gusa hari n’ahandi jenoside yabaye. Hari uburyo bwo kwandika amazina ku bagashyiraho n’amafoto ariko batagiye bashyira amagufa y’abantu bapfuye bazize jenoside mu bubati. Igihugu cyose nta hantu izo nzibutso zitari. Ngo zibe byibuze inzibutso zo kujya kwibukiramo ariko ayo magufa bakayashyingura. Biteye agahinda kubona bahora bayasiga ngo amavernis kugira ngo atazabora! Njyewe iyo ntekereje ababyeyi banjye uburyo bapfuye, abavandimwe banjye uburyo bapfuye, twarabashyinguye intambara imaze kurangira. Tumaze kubashyingura, ubu leta y’u Rwanda mu myaka ibiri ishize yatanze itegeko ry’uko n’abo twashyinguye bagomba kwongera kubataburura ngo bakabajyana mu nzibutso. Icyo kintu narakirwanije. Nkirwanije baravuga ngo nitutabikora bazohereza abanyururu kujya kubataburura kugira ngo babajyane mu nzibutso. Ibyo bintu ni agahomamumwa…

Ibi bintu tubibeshywe imyaka 17. Ku bintu bijyanye na jenoside hariho njyewe burya ibintu ntajya nemera cyane cyane nk’iyo banavuga ko jenoside ngo yatewe n’indege ya Habyarimana kubera ko yahanutse. Ingege ya Habyarimana, Habyarimana yari Prezida w’abanyarwanda, icyo ni icya mbere, ntabwo yari Perezida w’abahutu. Kuvuga ngo bishe Perezida w’abahutu noneho abahutu bishe abatutsi! Yari Perezida w’abanyarwanda.
Ikindi cya kabiri: ni ukuvuga ngo ‘mbere y’uko Habyarimana apfa hari abatutsi bishwe za Bugesera, n’abagogwe, n’abandi. Icyo gihe ntabwo Habyarimana yari yagapfa! Jenoside ni ibintu byateguwe, birakorwa. Ariko noneho uburyo leta y’u Rwanda nayo ubu ibikoresha biteye agahinda kuko nta mbabazi cyangwa ikintu gifatika gihumuriza abakorewe iyo jenoside.
Ndagira ngo mbisubiremo kuko njye nacitse ku icumu. Ababyeyi banjye, abavandimwe banjye bazize jenoside. Iwacu hari i Nyanza. Habaye amatongo. Ariko, noneho byonyine, ibaze kugira ngo dushyingure umuryango wacu, nibarangiza leta itegeke kwongera kuwutaburura, ngo bawujyane mu nzibutso. Ibyo bintu ndabyamagana. Na biriya bintu navuze bwa mbere byo gushyira amagufa mu ma etajeri. Ni agahomamunwa kuko njyewe n’iyo mbitekereje sinshobora kujya mu rwibutso kubireba kuko iyo mbirebye numva…, mpita numva koko ari ababyeyi banjye ndimo ndeba, kandi ngasanga binyuranye n’umuco nyarwanda, n’umuco w’Imana.

Prudencienne: Njyewe ikintu nongeraho ni uko muri jenoside nanjye ndi umuntu wacitse jenoside. Nari mpari. Nabuze abantu banjye bishwe n’interahamwe. Umukecuru wanjye na mukuru wanjye bari barokotse muri abo bantu bicwa na FPR, abasirikari ba FPR. Muri uko gushyingura abantu mu cyubahiro bazize jenoside ndashaka kumenya noneho igihe bazashaka imirambo yishwe n’abantu ba FPR, bo bazabashyingura mu cyubahiro ryari ko bagiye babajugunya mu bisambu? Nk’umukecuru wanjye yatoraguwe ahantu yari yajugunywe mu gisambu.

Q/ Ntabwo ari mu rwibutso?

Prudencienne: Ntabwo ari mu rwibutso. Non. Kuko yari umuhutu.